5 Questions with Dr. Andrew Thorn, Author of Leading with Your Legacy In Mind

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This edition of 5 Questions features Dr. Andrew Thorn. Dr. Thorn wrote a guest post on legacy last year, so I was excited when I had the opportunity to interview him about his new book Leading with Your Legacy In Mind. I know you’ll love our conversation and the book as well.

 

In the preface for the book, you give a personal take on the struggle between career and family. What’s one strategy from the book that could help someone breakthrough?

Choose to be guided by purpose instead of passion. The purpose of your work is not to be passionate, it is to be useful, to be honorable, and to be of value to your community. When we align with our passion we are constantly caught in the struggle of trying to feed our own self-interests. When we align with our purpose we make a difference, we add value, and we connect our actions to our values.

In our society, fame (even on a small scale), money and status drive many of us to leave our legacy in the dust. Is legacy becoming a forgotten art?

We have forgotten what legacy means and so naturally creating a legacy is a forgotten art. Too often we confuse it with impact, but that is what others feel. We carry our legacy with us. It is the ultimate answer to the question “Who am I?” That is why it is so important for each of us to live and lead with our legacy in mind.

You have a chapter in the book addressing the move from change to growth. What’s that all about?

Change is always driven by external pressures. None of us change because we want to, or because we like to. We may tell ourselves that we do it for those reasons, but in our most truthful moments, we recognize that we only change when we have to. When we do for external reasons, we rarely can sustain the change.

Growth on the other hand is internally motivated. It is the answer to our deepest yearnings and aspirations. It comes about as a result of true desire. This is what makes growth easier to sustain. There are still challenges and trials along the way, but we are committed to our own idea, so we keep at it when the going gets tough.

I read recently, that organizations spend billions on leadership development annually. Are we getting a good ROI in developing leaders?

Sadly, most leadership development initiatives fail to live up to their promise. This is because they are generally focused on the wrong things. Leadership is not a competency or a skill. It is a behavior. Most organizations are ill equipped to measure and manage behavior, but they are very effective at measuring and managing performance. Naturally, and without a lot of effort, most leadership development initiatives become nothing more than just another performance management strategy. When a leadership initiative becomes tied to performance the game is over. Instead of reaching deep into authenticity, it remains an effort to cover up weaknesses and threats. To grow, our weaknesses and threats need to be exposed so that we can understand them and even use them to our advantage.

Another reason why so many initiatives fail is because we forget that leadership is an individual journey. This makes it difficult to teach it in a group setting, but organizations are afraid that it will be too expensive to work with each individual. They know they have to do something so they invest in ineffective strategies, just so they can check the box. We can never check the box on our leadership development efforts. It must be ongoing or we will create a stagnant culture. No one wants that.

Do you believe we’d have better balance in life, if we made legacy a top-of-mind matter? What kind of positive outcomes might we see there?

I think balance happens naturally, so the only time we feel unbalanced is when something is wrong. In life and in work, the unbalances we feel are directly related to our own inability to focus on the things that matter most. We are easily distracted by our business and busyness and we run out of time and energy to deal with what really matters. This is an easy problem to fix. All we need to do is adjust our focus. This doesn’t mean that we forget the things that matter least, which would be impossible because they are directly tied to short-term demands. It simply means that we take time each day to put the big picture in perspective and then do our best to allow our short-term actions to be aligned with bringing that picture to life. When we do this, our legacy is strengthened and we are happy. Most people are surprised by how easy it is to focus and recalibrate their life and work experiences.

 

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A pioneer and leader in the field of work/life balance; Dr. Andrew Thorn is widely recognized for his breakthrough thinking on how to help people discover their sense of purpose and create greater meaning from their personal and professional experiences. He personally guided 2 of the top 50 business thinkers, currently listed on The Thinkers 50. His work extends to over 50 major corporate clients and over 250 Senior Leaders from many of the Fortune 500 Companies.

Graduating with a Masters in Business Administration from Pepperdine University, Dr. Thorn also holds a PhD in Consulting Psychology and a Masters in Personal and Executive Coaching.

He resides near Los Angeles, CA with his wife of 25 years, Stacy, and their seven children.

Old Leaders, Old Ideas

Decided to take a look back and found this post from June of 2005. Ever experienced old leaders and their old ideas? Maybe you’ve approached your life this way. It’s a dangerous place, either way.

 

Isn’t it tragic how old leaders bring old ideas?  Here are some reasons for this dysfunction:

  •     Old leaders look through the lens of the past.  A place that “once was”
  •     Old leaders believe (foolishly) that what worked in the past will work again
  •     Old leaders grow old gradually…over time, and die before they are buried
  •     Old leaders are insecure and need an organization that will grow old with them
  •     Old leaders think change applies to others

I was at a holiday get-together this past weekend.  One individual gave me some interesting insights.  She worked for a company where many of the key leaders had moved onto another competitor.  This was the result of a management shake-up some years ago.  These leaders were now trying to implement a structure like the one they had some ten years ago.  She hauntingly noted; “it didn’t work at our place ten years ago, and it won’t work at their new place.”

One of the common mistakes of management is the dysfunction of justifying the old by glorying in the “moments in the sun.”  They experienced the success, and believed that is was a one-way ticket to everlasting success.  Again, old leaders with old ideas.

The Changing Face of Work

In December of last year I caught this article on creativity. Specifically, how creativity is viewed in the work place. I found it rather ironic because of the changing face of work today. In a work world where so much is being turned upside-down, you’d think the creative would be more valued. I carry a bias toward the creative. I belong to that tribe, with great energy and vibe.

Between coaching clients, conversations with decision makers (small and large companies) and the written word, I get a strong sense of how work is changing. The following is not based in theory, and gives a sense of what is here and what’s to come:

  • Employees will soon (1-3 years for the individual and the mid-market) be buying their own health insurance. The employer will contribute an annual dollar amount, but the buying part will be up to you
  • Engagement in the work place will continue to drop until workers feel they have an equal say in what’s going to happen in their specific work function. The millennials are the catalyst here
  • Fear will be a driver of innovation
  • Knowledge transfer is a bigger deal than many think
  • People who are looking for a job should pay attention to disruptive technology. It will either eliminate your job or create a new one. This is good advice for the employed as well
  • For obvious reasons people will need, and maybe forced, to truly manage their lives with an “on-purpose” approach

The bullets above are sobering. Don’t lose you soul navigating the waters.

Recognizing Talent.

The below video clip was shot a couple of years ago.  The relevance continues, especially in these upside-down times we find ourselves in.  We're in a place where recognizing talent is essential.  And by the way, it starts with your soul and the art of searching people. 

I could write further on this, but check-out the video clip for more.

 

What Entrepreneur Means

I have written many times that everyone is an entrepreneur (risk taker).  The size and scope varies from person to person.  The place where it happens can be different too.

I was in a conversation with a CEO yesterday about how we've moved to a place where if you don't see yourself as an entrepreneur, you'll be left behind.  This is tough work. Many, I know, haven't accepted that we no longer live in an industrial age.  Accept is the right word to look at here.

I've been an entrepreneur for 6 years.  And as I think about that conversation yesterday, I realize that entrepreneurism did something I didn't expect when I started the conscious journey.

Entrepreneurism reintroduced Eric Pennington to Eric Pennington. Regardless of how much money I make, how many people experience what I offer or whether applause comes in waves, the reintroduction is a difference-maker.

An Update

I thought I would take some time to update you on my goings on. Specifically, from my post The Week That Was. My story is a mixed bag.

Fortunately, my wife landed with a new company on March 25. We were also able to get health insurance much sooner than we initially thought, April 1 to be exact.

This is all great news.

The other side of the coin is helping my wife navigate the change. I was truly struck by the "family spirit" that was her working group. They were and are very close. They encouraged one another, consoled one another, they behaved in a way that close families do. The sad reality is they're not a family. At least not in the eyes of corporate America. It reminded me how easy it is for organizations and their people to live in two different realities. One reality based on caring and performance, the other on results and a thing called money. Obviously, great danger follows these opposites.

Another striking result of this process is how little senior leaders know about communication. Specifically, how to say what needs to be said. If I didn't know any better, I would say a bunch of 3rd graders were running the show for my wife's former company and the new one too. If you're a professional, you're supposed act like one. 

In the end, I'm looking out for my family and trusting in the One who knows and sees way more than I. 

Many thanks for the concern and sentiments you've sent my way.

Who Would Follow You, the Leader?

Celebrating the best of the Epic Living Blog, 2012. Enjoy!

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I've been thinking a lot these last few weeks about what's the best measurement of quality leadership-in the business world and out. There's so much flowing out there about defining quality leadership, it can be a bit overwhelming. Did I mention burdensome?

I will attempt to set a context you can use to measure leadership in a way that you can pull out in virtually any situation. Maybe it's a question you ask a prospective manager or the HR recruiter who wants to know if you have any further questions.

The question comes down to this; "who follows you even though they don't have to?"

The answer to the above question is so important because anyone can follow when there is a stick and carrot involved. But what about when you're not in charge or some other circumstance changes the order of things? Every time I've met someone who has followed a leader without the force of position, I've encountered someone whose life has been impacted. Impacted in way that you can feel deep in your gut as the observer. Sort of like being in the audience when a great singer sings "that" song.

This all should make us remember that how we influence people (every day) is what builds true followers. And if we do it right, they will stay.

What Management Doesn’t Know Will Hurt Them

Does your manager operate on assumptions? It's kind of a turn on my saying, what management does know will hurt them. The following are some examples:

  • We hit our numbers (cutting costs, revenue goals, quarterly profit), therefore we've earned the right to proceed with the next phase of growth.
  • The last employee survey was better than the last, so we don't need to dig any deeper into past complaints of favoritism.
  • We all have sacrificed, so morale isn't as bad as it may appear. Besides, we're a team.

Obviously, you and I could think of many other examples. My point is to illustrate the two different worlds management and employees live in. The most dangerous part is the inevitable collision to come. In America those collisions are happening on a regular basis. For example, our fiscal cliff is causing many publically traded companies to pay out one-time dividends at a lightening pace to beat what they see as the inevitble in 2013. The hike in tax consequences on dividend income. This is happening while many employees, and potential employees, are wondering when will the hiring will start again. The money is there for a dividend, why not for hiring someone.

Human beings are complex creatures. The DNA is fixed and we are who we are. Survival instincts, the need for affirmation and a desire for clarity are just a few to consider. How can this be missed. Lower quality leaders just don't know any better. Call it a leadership deficit that's difficult to remedy.

We're doing battle with culture here. A culture that staked everything, or so it seems, on some false-growth model. There needs to be some cleaning out to the rot. I'm not advocating we toss the entire system out, but I am advocating that we add some serious leadership development that is NOT based on giving the appearance of change. Way too many programs conform to keeping the status quo alive and well. We need to find courage now because we are far into the second-half. Expecting an epic comeback is a very dangerous outlook.

Management is toying with grave consequences when it forgets this.

 

The Essential Element

Until organizations realize that people are the essential elements of what make things work, we will forever have a win-lose proposition. Meaning, the organization thinks they've won and people are always on the losing end of the stick. Paying lip-service to this will only further deepen the hole. 

I admire any leader that has the courage to speak up and act. These types of leaders are willing to pay a steep price, in-order to fight for something worth fighting for. This is rare. Far too many people of influence are looking the other way.

The absence of leaders willing to raise their hands is the rot we have on our hands.

Candor and Clarity

I've written before about the importance of clarity on the part of managers. Most of that was directed at mid-level managers who are often tasked with leading individual contributors.

This post is directed at those who are steering at the senior level. It may be an obvious, but candor and clarity is important. Consider the following:

  • Every organization should be willing to be clear and candid about the direction of the enterprise. If you are a publicly-held group, then you may have some disclosure issues to navigate. That said, legal limitations on what can and cannot be disclosed should not be an excuse for a lack of candor and clarity.
  • Every organization should let their employees know what the value system is based on, even if it means the employee is not at the top of the list. Avoiding this discussion/communication could be fatal. So many employers and employees operate under assumptions. Assumptions that go out the window when the storms come.
  • Every organization should be clear about how the organization makes money. This places a shared accountability and education.
  • Every organization must understand the life-cycle of and employee and give those employees the room to move on. So many organizations live in fear of employees leaving. Turn-over (internally or externally) due to terrible managers is bad (really bad), turn-over due to an employee completing the mission and moving onto a new dream is a great thing. By the way, the latter example might make your company a highly desired place to work.
  • Every organization should be able to communicate when the end is near. I know it sounds morbid, but don't tell an intelligent adult things are good when collapse is not far off. By giving them the tough reality upfront you give an opening to prepare. Every good employee deserves this kind of candor and clarity.

If you work for an organization that finds candor and clarity nearly impossible, I would consider moving on because a lack of candor and clarity is usually a sign of decline. The irreversible type of decline.